I did a whois search on the domain name and came up with this info:

Registrant:
ATT Developments

23 Wallace Street
Southport, Queensland 4215
Australia

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: BETTORTRADER.COM
Created on: 27-Nov-05
Expires on: 27-Nov-08
Last Updated on:

Administrative Contact:
Riddell, Kevin kevin@bettortrader.com
ATT Developments
23 Wallace Street
Southport, Queensland 4215
Australia
413377500

Technical Contact:
Riddell, Kevin kevin@bettortrader.com
ATT Developments
23 Wallace Street
Southport, Queensland 4215
Australia
413377500

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.INFLUXWEB.NET
NS2.INFLUXWEB.NET

Appears to be based in Southport where a lot of these other schemes are from.

Caveat Emptor

After months of hearing about this thread appearing in Google search results I thought I would clarify just how pathetic this attempt to discredit us really is. Some of you will know how direct I am from the numerous cutting posts (also as Justadash) regarding the use of these forums by other companies to try and discredit each other by posting fake remarks etc. (If anyone would like to see these I can post them here).

The reason for my reply will be evident to some but not most. If one is to search for bettortrader they will see the 3rd search down is one that relates to this thread and in the body of that search result it says bettortrader and the word ripoff in the same sentence. These tactics are used by competition to blemish the overall image of a company and steer prospective buyers away from looking into the companies products. This hasn't happened to us at least not to the degree one may have hoped but nonetheless, as director, it is irritating to see the search come up time and time again.

Before I go on though, I will first address the original post in this thread. Neither our website, our documents nor staff members will quote definite figures as to how much money you can or will make. If you are a dope or you can't stick to rules and you are desperate for money or other such negatives (which most of the time will lead you to desperate measures that will inadvertently lead to bad decisions) you will most likely make none... REGARDLESS OF HOW GOOD THE SYSTEM/SOFTWARE/SERVICE MAY BE!

On the other hand, many have made over $2000 in one race and definitely have made that easily on a Saturday afternoon. So the point I am trying to make here is that those types of figures are thrown at the not so savvy that do not understand the nature of the racing industry or the associated investing/punting/wagering that takes place and the incredibly speculative market it really is and therefore will not believe it when you tell them you can make a hell of a lot more. In other words, if it sounds to good to be true then it perhaps is. For this reason most companies in this industry will say you can make $500 to $800 per week on average because it sounds conservative and achievable.

Reading through the replies sounds like reading a script thus the assumption by the many readers that it is a blatant attack from a disgruntled competitor or the like. After many many years participating in such forums you learn to be able to smell the cyber rat and not give it much credence. So let's talk about the research. My wife and I first decided to setup our business on the Gold Coast after hailing from the Northern Rivers area 2 years ago. Myself in particular from Byron Bay and my wife from Lismore.

As some may know, these are rural areas and hardly the place for finding experienced staff in their plenty for a growing business in this field nor the the place to find the prestige a business seems to portray when in a 'big city'. After spending the first 6mths setting up business there it was decided for many reasons to relocate back to our home town where we have been ever since mid 06.

The Whois registration details for the website is a great way to get quick info about a business but that can be quite easily manipulated so is hardly what I would call good research. If you want to do good research you would of course use the governing bodies for business registrations such as ASIC or Dept Fair Trading where you will find up to date info on the company itself... not the website administrators or whoever else has put themself on the whois details. Hell, I could go there right now and put Forest Gump as the contact in the whois details if I wanted to. In any case, not much hidden in the whois is there? My personal mobile number and email AND home address (at that time) etc etc etc.

Maximus is obviously being quite sarcastic and it doesn't take a rocket science degree to assume he does not have good intentions from the start. Now I must ask, is there not anything of any substance you can bring up to do us an injustice or cost us business... like "your software doesn't work..." or "your training and support is pathetic" ... No there isn't. Because none of these things are true. So the intent of this thread was to create doubt in the mind of those who do searches on Google and see the heading of this thread and part of the content in the search results.

Now, for you accusing us of ripping off the name.... HAHA. So you think we ripped off some stock program I have never heard of called metatrader (actually have now that I think about it). So did these companies also rip them off (some of which are equally respected share trading platforms such as smctrader etc)....

stocktrader
theoptiontrader
ffitrader
visualstocktrader
smctrader
autotrader
comtrader
60minutetrader
auctiontrader
aviationtrader
indiestrader
computertrader
thechocolatecrowtrader
numberplatetrader
kitetrader
thecountrytrader
margintrader
opaltrader
thedailytrader
techtrader
theinsidetrader

I could go and on for hours but I am sure you get my drift... The definition of the word meta is as follows;

---Meta is a prefix that in most information technology usages means "an underlying definition or description." Thus, metadata is a definition or description of data and metalanguage is a definition or description of language. Meta (pronounced MEH-tah in the U.S. and MEE-tah in the U.K.) derives from Greek, meaning "among, with, after, change." Whereas in some English words the prefix indicates "change" (for example, metamorphosis), in others, including those related to data and information, the prefix carries the meaning of "more comprehensive or fundamental."
-------------
Now for the word trader;

trader
noun

1. Someone who trades, often one who owns or runs a shop or market stall, or who trades in a particular group of goods.
Thesaurus: merchant, dealer, seller, buyer, barterer, broker.2. stock exchange.
Someone who trades privately on the stock exchange, as opposed to someone who does so on behalf of customers.3. A ship used for trade.
--------------

So the prefix to the word 'trader' in the name bettortrader suggests it is trading in the arena of bloodstock racing or betting with a trading discipline and also has the slight play on words, being that when spoken it suggests is is a 'better trader' for traders in the industry in which we 'trade'

All this really is quite boring for mist who will read it and is really intended for those who posted the above and for the few who have been concerned about it for any reason. As a last note, we could be out the back of Bourke. In fact, we may again open an office in QLD. You never know and for those using our software, they couldn't give a rats backside where we are as long as we keep doing what we've been doing!

What matters is reputation, product, development, performance, backup, training, support, knowledge and commitment. It is fast becoming common knowledge that we excel and rise above the pack in all of these important areas.

I hope this does clear up any concerns for those looking at our products and to the tosser/s out there with nothing better to do than bring the good folk down and waste space on such an awesome site, get on with whatever it is you do... sell your 10k plus, crap web scraping getbrokequick scams until you have to close down and reopen under another name or something... and leave us alone.

Kevin Riddell
Director
A.T.T.Developments

The people making millions in HK, Japan, US and other places that you refer to are NOT traders.
While it is true they are using mathematics, it's not the mathematics of trading. It is the mathematics of analysing racing data to minutest detail. They have hundreds of variables that they have learned over time that affects how the horses run.
Trading has absolutely NOTHING to do with it, so please don't pretend you know anything about it, because you don't.

You make money from racing the same as you do in any other pursuit.
Hard work, attention to detail, and leaving nothing to chance.

Anybody that had software that could win you money would not be selling it.
It would never see the light of day.
Because once something is in the public domain it is basically worthless even if if it does work.

In the share market for instance - and I'll cut and paste your exact comments here - when trade in that particular market it is about...

the mathematics of analysing companies (racing) data to minutest detail
They have hundreds of variables that they have learned over time that affects how the companies (horses) run

If the technical trader uses nothing other than charts and a plethora or indicators , he cares not about what the CEO had for breakfast but rather the flow of money and price movement on that stock WHICH RESULTS from all the hard work of the fundamental analysts.

Befair have exchanges for in play betting, laying etc. This IS trading and it is a fine and exacting art. Today I had a trifecta come in at Ararat Race 4 that paid $447.60. It was 13, 8 and 4. The only horse I had heard of was the Brave Ruler. What did I know about the form of those horses? Nada. Not a thing. Then there was (amongst other things) Hvar Surprise at Ararat R7. Again, based on nothing other than criteria relating to money flow. I can take an absolute stranger off the street and tell them whet to look for and within an hour they will pick a winner if there is one to see.

Over 2 years in business we have never had someone tell us the software DOESN'T work. Hey, if you think you're such a know it all humour me... ring me for a demo and let's compare 12mth TAB statements. I don't want you to buy it because knowing it all, you can't be taught but I'd love to 'hear' the silence as the penny drops when you see what we're doing as it does with so many punters.

The thing with what we do PW is that, we don't sell as a home based business or get rich quick scheme and we make no promises or tell you how much money you can make, we don't advertise, we don't telemarket, we don't have flash pictures of yachts and people in suits jumping for joy with their kids in front of them. So why are we selling software??? Because it works maybe? No that couldn't be true, could it? It wouldn't be because people see us making real money in front of their eyes while they are watching Sky Racing or because we know our stuff in and out?? Nah. It must be because you are right and we are all wrong. The $2000 trifecta Ray from Sydney got a couple of weeks back was a dream. It didn't happen. God help me I'm going mad.

The fact is PW, it isn't just the software. It's the knowledge that comes with it that you seem to think we know so little of (TRADING) and the experience of using bettordata for years and knowing how to make money from it. See, tomorrow many will most likely back 6 favourites in an hour, be up and down like a yoyo and call it a fun day. We will wait for right signals and back 3 horses in an hour and most likely paying big overs.
So please tell me PW, what exactly is the 'mathematics of trading'.

You say a product like this would not see the light of day and that once it is out there it would lose it's worth. Now I guess you're going to tell me that it would shorten the odds etc with all going on the same runner. Some of our clients use the data and place their bets with Betfair or other online bookies. We are sometimes seeing money dumps in the vicinity of 10k on a Saturday in ONE HIT! Now if that is only changing the divi by 25%, I seriously doubt our clients putting on their 20s and 50s are going to affect it in the slightest.

As for your comments about hard work, this is no black box system. It does not make decisions for you although we are incorporating a rating type system for those that love exotics and the few who prefer dutching.

You show your absolute ignorance (throughout the whole message) when you say that if someone had such a tool, they would not sell it. I guess that could be said if you were talking about a company that sells their product for $15k and promises you will make $70kpa. Sure. We don't say that but some have. Are you saying you can't make money with a good share trading program? Of course you can... with the right knowledge. Same here.

You have obviously been left behind with the dinosaurs. Hey, it happens. It's a big new world out there PW. Maybe you should get out from under your rock and see what's really happening.

Debug, the price of the software is actually $5,900 if you look again. Compared to the 10k to 30k programs that mostly DO NOT do what they say they will, it is priced quite competitively. Our clients receive training and support for life and some will do training once per week for the first six months if they think it necessary. If someone said they just Want the software because they know everything which is HIGHLY unlikely, they can have it for much less and is negotiated whilst doing the many live demos we do to validate the product. While doing demos it is often real money being used and it is quite obvious to anyone who talks to us that we mean business.

PW, this was never intended to be a thread about all this but if you would like to continue, do it in person and view the facts. There is no point arguing about something YOU know nothing about... pur products, our services and our clients.

Cheers.

*TO THOSE THAT BELIEVE NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY, TO THOSE THAT DO NOT, NONE WILL SUFFICE*

You have reference to those syndicates/betting teams with the insinuation that they are traders, as users that bought your software would be. The teams are not traders. You try to imply an association, when there is none.

You certainly would not be able to follow their money either, because the intent of those teams is to be the last to invest before the race is underway.
They only bet when they have a positive expectation.
They are not going to put money on early, as they know others would pick it up, and then they would be saying goodbye to their value.
What really happens is that by the the time your clients saw what happened it would be too late for them to jump on board.
Sure there will be lots of idiots and gamblers making big bets that the gullible might follow, but in the main they will simply be losers too.

Yes I am probably a dinosaur as far age goes, but I know, I know far more than you about these things(computer teams/gambling software).

By the way, you can't bet in play with Betfair from Australia. It is illegal and Betfair stops it.
Did you know that the head of one those betting teams also owns a hefty part of Betfair?

The ONLY programs that work on horse racing, are NOT FOR SALE AT ANY COST.

As far as not being able to see what goes on late, believe me we can and do and with enough time to still bet. So you know of the Bettordata feed do you? Obviously not otherwise you wouldn't be arguing about seeing the money come in late. You are all high and mighty saying you know more than me about betting software and computer teams LOL!!! You must be psychic or have some sort of crystal ball to know so much about a person you have never met or even spoken to. You would have to be the most ignorant person I have ever had the great pleasure of talking to.

We can see all the blind following the blind.... we can see everything. So before you go any further, be the big man you are acting and put it to the test or keep your well and TRULY UNINFORMED comments to yourself. The bottom line is this and there can be no further argument. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WE DO, HOW WE DO IT, WHAT WE DO IT WITH OR WHAT I OR WE KNOW!! PERIOD!

Here is an extract from the Betfair Userguide Mr Know-It-All...

CONTENTS
1. WELCOME TO BETFAIR – An introduction to Betfair Australia, explaining how Betfair works and how to find your way around the site.
2. OPENING AN ACCOUNT – A step-by-step guide to opening an account, as well as depositing and withdrawing funds.
3. BACKING A SELECTION – Everything you need to know about backing a selection on Betfair, with a step-by-step guide and betting example.
4. LAYING A SELECTION – Everything you need to know about laying a selection on Betfair, with a step-by-step guide and betting example.
5. TRADING – Betfair has introduced new and exciting ways to bet enabling you to trade in and out of market positions.
6. THE MARKETS – You can bet on a wide range of different markets on Betfair. We take you through some of the main ones.
7. TELEPHONE BETTING – Placing a bet via telephone is a quick and simple process, and our operators are on hand 24 hours a day.
8. UNDERSTANDING THE TERMS – It’s a good idea to get to grips with some of the key betting terms and definitions before you have a punt.
9. IN-PLAY BETTING – There have been some truly remarkable betting markets on Betfair, where punters have won at amazing prices.
For all betting and account queries, email ausinfo@betfair.com or phone the
Betfair Helpdesk on 1800 644 738.
HAPPY PUNTING,
THE BETFAIR TEAM

This is the direct link to it.

http://guide.betfair.com.au/betfair-userguide.pdf

OH MY GOD, is section 5 called trading... wow. and dont tell me it says it is brining in the ability to TRADE in and out of MARKET positions, NO, it can't be, Betfair don't TRADE... this isn't TRADING... whatever PW. Crawl back to wherever it is you came from and stop with your know-it-all banter because you actually don't. Now i saying that, I am learning everyday how to do things better. You know why, because I don't profess to know everything and that tends to allow me to have an open mind and ear.

I know all about Bettordata, and yes it is quick, but unfortunately not quick enough for your clients to follow the smartest money which is mostly bet as late as possible..
If it is done early, as I admit it sometimes is, depending on which pool it goes into, it is done in trickles, not at once, so as not to alert the bottom feeders.
Your small betting clients have to pay for the Bettordata feed I assume. Not cheap for little players, I would not imagine.

Do you think cutting and pasting something off Betfair enhances your credibility?
I am not saying people can't trade and make money off it by backing and laying. There are lots of people doing so with the help of Betfair and the other betting agencies, but is has NOTHING to do with those computer teams that you say trade when they don't.
All I said with regards to Betfair, was that you can't bet inplay with betfair from Australia and you can't. Why even mention it?

You're an angry man justadash. You mean I can read your website thoroughly & still have no idea what you do???
Interesting that you say that.
Why have a website if it does not say anything?

Why don't you just do it yourself if it is so good? I think anybody with half a brain knows the answer to that.

I am angry. I am angry at a fool who has chosen with incredible malice, to bring down someone and something HE KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT in a thread that did not concern him! You are pig headed, ignorant and arrogant to the point that it it doesn't really matter what we have and how well it works because you will ALWAYS have some negative BS to add to it.

You have not answered one question from my previous posts. The Betfair extract was an attempt to show you that the industry DO in fact at times and epending on who you are talking to, refer to themselves as traders and the what they practice as trading.

Now if you'll excuse me, it is Saturday and it IS time to start making money. You see,regardless of all your skepticism and try hard explanations as to HOW IT COULD POSSIBLY NOT WORK FOR US, THE FACT IS IT DOES. SO INSTEAD OF BARKING OUT YOUR ARSE ALL DAY ABOUT HOW MUCH YOU KNOW, PUT IT TO THE TEST. BUT NO YOU WON'T, BECAUSE THE LAST THING YOU WOULD WANT IS TO END UP WITH EGG ON YOUR FACE... WHICH YOU WOULD... AND SOME MAY SAY YOU ALREADY HAVE!! GOODBYE

http://www1.subscriptiondata.com/corp.php

This is only place you are going to get the fast feeds from(and resellers), apart from the live odds service provided be the TAB.
Where is it that i am wrong?
No, I don't use this data feed, but I do know about it, and would even recommend it for people that could afford it.
Some people have their own terminals provided by the TAB, so it is not required.

The rest of your rant,I will ignore.
Hopefully people are reading and can make up their own minds.
If it stops some people from throwing good money after bad then I will be happy.

Strozzi......yeah, and pigs fly!

Now listen, if you were talking to some company that was pushing the get rich quick deal then I could understand your blatant arrogance but in this case you are WRONG WRONG WRONG and yes most will make up their own mind and considering it is even more BLATANTLTY obvious that you have NEVER had dealings with us or know our software and or strategies and know only that we somehow follow money means that you are in fact dribbling brown stuff from the corner of your mouth. The person you have suggested is a liar is a valued client from NZ. Watch your mouth and have some respect.

You contradict yourself. You say you would recommend the Bettordata feed but then say that it doesn't work. Make up your mind. For or against. Now considering you would recommend it, then what program would you recommend to show that data and capitalize on what you see considering the Bettordata feed is specifically designed for 3rd party applications such as ours? You really have no clue and I dare say nothing more than a trouble maker with nothing better to do. Are you having fun yet?

I only stated that the computer teams are not traders as you said they are, on your web site.
I also say you can't follow the smartest money if it is too late and the race is under way.
By the time the information is disseminated by your subscribers it's too late.
The biggest price movements you will see after the field has jumped.
That's the smartest money.
The software I use is my own and it's not for sale.

Now, if your software is so good, then why are you trying to flog it?
People have been coming up with these things and flogging them for as long as there has been racing.
The people that profit are the vendors, not the gullible purchasers.

If, on the other hand you are just selling software that displays the data and allows you to bet, then it is way overpriced.

Goodbye, and the worst of luck with sales!

The BS you use , for example , is not yours in the sense of, you purchased it, but either you ripped it off or it was given to you. It , BS, is definitely for sale. You just didn't buy it.

You may have some knowledege of computers and software etc but you are dumb.

How can I prove that? Well, for one, if I were the smartest money around, would I wait 'til the death to put my money on and then run the chance of missing the jump. Or if the jump is delayed and the market stays open allowing everyone to "track the SMART money". Doesn't sound too smart to me.

Given the above and your past discretions I don't think smart and/or money, would have anything to do with you.

My software is 100% my own & have no interest in selling it to anybody, nor any interest in what you may think about something you know nothing about.

But I can't let this one go. What is BS? Bet selector?
I don't use it, am not interested in using it, and know nothing about it, other than it is a legitimate program as far as I know, unlike the other.

I certainly would not call anybody dumb, unless I knew they actually were, and even then probably not.

If you are betting millions & millions of dollars as some teams do, then it is basically all maths.
If you have a probability of .2 and it is $5 on the tote with 5 minutes to go, then you can't bet early because you don't know which way it is going to go in the market.
The aim of the teams is to maximise their profits. The size of their bets is only limited by the size of the particular pool they are betting into.
The aim(although rarely achievable) is to be the last bet before jump, because you then know the final odds that can only be changed by your own money into the pool. You then know how much you can bet to maximise your profit.

Given past discretions? What, may I ask are you talking about?

But I digress. Some fools are bigger fools than others I suppose.
pw

It seems you may not be whom I think you are and if that is the case, deserved of my humblest apologies.

gessdodge

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=486803&p=6

You don't know what you're talking about. Look at the bottom of this thread for more comments. Our punters use their brains, our software and our support and training to gain their results. You are yet another faceless, skeptic with no idea what we do.

In fact, on Saturday just gone there were at least 5 winners paying well in double figures. Don't crap on and tell me I am tarred with the same frigging brush as a shonk you rude b*****d. Watch your mouth!! Ridiculous amounts of money are not paid for our software. The amount outlayed reflects the value on offer but do you know that about us?? NO!! NOW LISTEN, BECAUSE I WILL ONLY SAY THIS ONCE... I HAVE TAB ACCOUNTS WITH AWESOME RESULTS AND PLENTY OF HAPPY CLIENTS. YOU ON THE OTHER HAND, KNOW JACK ABOUT ANY OF THAT AND ARE HAPPIER JOINING CYBERHORSE AT 11.54AM THIS MONDAY MORNING TO SAY WHAT????? NADA. PONCE LITTLE REMARKS ABUT BEING TARRED WITH THE SAME BRUSH. BASED ON WHAT FACT?? WHAT BRUSH ARE YOU TARRED WITH? I have a few thoughts on that.... and if you would like to come to our office so I can wipe away your smartarse attitude (use the toilet brush you have been tarred with if you prefer) and watch you eat humble pie with a facts sandwich and more facts for dinner followed up with live results in front of your own eyes for desert, I would love to accommodate you and any other NO GOOD, INSULTING, LOWLIFE who would like to start a personal attack on someone who has worked hard for the only respect I care about, our clients respect. FF. BTW, our software in its current form, does not just 'throw up winners' and while I'm here, let me just share something with you. I'll pull my head back in and give you the benefit of the doubt.

It was a race meeting we sponsored early this year. The first race was a maiden with seven runners. I was sitting with all the board of the track, some BIG punters and some of the Bartholomew boys who work for him in this area and a well known and respected ex jockey come commentator and late mailman for Sky Racing in the country areas north of Newcastle and predominantly Northern Rivers. We were looking at the money going on each runner in 30sec intervals. We at first looked at the 3rd fave. Unusual money coming for it amongst other indications. As the race jumped we noticed we had over looked a least obvious animal. It was the rank outsider paying around $70. It was raining a week before the meeting and this track does not drain well. Mostly only locals know where in the track. A local trainer had the outsider. He walked the track early and found the boggiest parts of the track and suggested a run to his jockey. I didn't see one other person look at the track that deeply except the jockeys going for a drive to see if they even wanted to ride. The outsider sat off the pace and around the home turn, ran off the track to get the high ground and it took off like a rocket. It won. Now the person I had previously described who was doing the late mail - at times with our software - as they jumped said, someone has had a go on the outsider at 2mins to go. Yep, sure enough it had at least double the amount that everything else had in the field bar the 2 favourites. When I returned to the members area to tell all in attendance, my wife suggested it may have been the bloke standing in the torrential rain cheering the winner home. So off I go to find this person. I went and grabbed the late mailman i mentioned to help me find this bloke. It was the trainer. Yes, it was he with the money on it. Why? Because he knew something we didn't. That if his jockey got the good run and all else got caught in the bog he would have a good chance. He invested accordingly. He nearly fell over after we walked him through the stewards room to show him. He said "thats my money plus a bit but definitely my money". We saw his money TO THE DOLLAR. Not just the divi change but the MONEY! We went something safer paying $11/$3.50 which came second and missed the big one due to all the commotion but it was there. Thats part of what we do and as such, a lot of the time it is a lot more information than you could ever hope to have in terms of looking for value outside the faves. If it looks like the fave is going to win or thats all that has been backed, we leave it. I cannot remember the last time I backed a starter as short as what you suggest. My daughters are jockeys, my family bred and raced trotters for 50 years, I have been running this business with more ethical practices than any I have ever heard of in this industry to the point that we turn away some business and you have decided to have a go at me about being tarred with what brush again?? The next time you reply with such a personal, insulting, lowlife accusation, do it to my face and do it with at least a little bit of researched fact.

EDIT: and you are acting on the post you replied to about being $8000 which is wrong information in any case. Read the whole thread!

If you don't like the negatives you are now getting, and you need somebody to blame for that, then I suggest you go and have a look in a mirror.

I wonder if your mother ever washed your mouth out with soap and water.
Your way of talking should be more than enough to turn most people off.

I checked the meeting you sponsored and it was 10 starters if it's the same meeting. The pool was a trivial 37k, which would mean even small bets on long priced horses would show through.
If it was 'around 70' as you say, and it payed 61.10, then big deal.
Would you like me to do the math for you??
Your tale does not really say anything.
Can't see why Bartholomew would bother with Lismore, there would be no advantage for him having people on course I would not think. The bookies there would probably be part time or small time who would be too scared to lay a decent bet. Pretty sure he would not have people there just to use the totes.

Let me point out a few facts.

1. If your system was so incredible why would you bother trying to sell a system that if all these winners were true. Wouldn't you make more money with all those winners you throw up.

2. Why would such an experienced gambler like yourself and purveyor of such an incredible betting system have a tab account. As you can see by the list below all the reasons why you shouldn't have a tab account.
The Bookies List.
1st Betfair (105%)
2nd IASBet (111%)
2nd SportingBet (111%)
4th Betezy (116%)
Joint 5th: TAB Racing (118%),Race TAB (118%) and TAB Online (118%)
8th CentreBet (123%)
9th Sports Acumen (126%)
Jt 10th BetChoice (129%) and SportsBet (129%)
12thh Your Best Bet (130%)
13th Centre Racing (132%)
14. WinBet (133%)
15. TAB NZ (134%)
As you can see from fifth place onwards and it is starting to get a bit unpleasant. Paying near 20% or more of your stake just to have a bet is way too much.
If you are a serious about your punting get an account with Betfair. That is a no brainer. After that then IASBet or SportingBet.

Lastly I choose to use my money to make me more money I use a betting bank and only ever bet percentage of bank. I havent put money into my accounts for 18months and regularly transfer money out. Survey your own clients and find out the last time they took money out? For that matter anyone who has purchased a system, I know of too many people that have, and struggled to recoup anywhere near what the providers stated. I hate seeing people being burnt and usually the ones that were struggling in the first place.

All the best with your life but in my world if it was so fantastic the system would sell itself and no need for advertising or personal attacks!

Let me first clarify that wonderful turnover you mentioned. When the first version of our software came out it was available to people for a song compared to - at that time - either equivalent or even lesser products. It started at $3900 and in the first year the business cost nearly that in development and basic running costs ($3,900 x the amount of people on board - not that it's really anyones business if you get down to it - I mean you wouldn't ask the builder of you house how much he turned over last year would you, only if he can build a nice house you'd be happy with for life). You know what everyone said? Why is it so cheap?! People were so wrapped up in the hype other companies threw at them about the exorbitant money they spend on development and say things like "well if Bettortrader's that cheap how long will they be around?" Or they would say, "probably just trying to make the quick buck - trying to grab the quick sale and undercut the market" At one stage that's exactly what we wanted to do but after a couple of years running this business now, there is no way on this Gods green Earth, that anyone could do what I and the company do for people with out charging accordingly. With the upgrades has come adjustments in pricing as with all businesses. The $7,900 you mention has included a whole bunch of things since June of this year and that's also when the price went from $4,900 to $5,900 in line with recent upgrades. People have started asking for mobility and thus the options available. In the big bad world of marketing they call it value adding - so our price is comparable with the bottom of the market expectation but we give our right arm with it. Which is what my business is all about. Going one step further than most. The thing with cheaper software is that they are mostly black box type progs that will apparently make good selections for you and thus all you need to do is click a button and go have a beer, watch the footy and when you come back all should be good$ I won't go into the pricing structure of other companies because ALL I know is the price if their products. I don't really know what anyone else does EXACTLY other than what I am told by people who own their progs or have seen of them (well I do mostly but I will never get into a discussion here about it;). What I do know is what we do and for what it's worth, that is a damn hell of a lot.

Debug, (only regarding price and competing products), you say there is a comparable product for a quarter of the price. The only one I would put into this category is Racemate which I believe is quite a featured tool and the owners are racing enthusiasts as well, not marketing machines and thus also have plenty of knowhow behind them. It is around half the price I think of our software. There have been for and against an again I will not go into what others do based on hearsay as hearsay is not necessarily fact... such as testimonials... I think they do better with the punters who don't necessarily have to be taught all that we teach people and thus I believe we ma do more training as they are dealing with those who don't have to be taught what an odds on favourite is. I think they can look at all sorts of things only the avid punter would want but then we may have things that the avid punter may not want to see and so much more on the horizon - we do things differently no doubt and therefore, pardon the pun... it's horses for courses and if that particular punter comes along to us and says he doesn't need all the whistles and bells but wants ours without the training, then sure we will sell it for roughly the same price as well and we have done. People have also happily paid more for ours knowing our commitment to further development and the depth of training we provide. Thats why I say they were wonderful $$ figures mentioned above. I wish. Makadollar just plucked a figure but I can see how (albeit the price of the 'software' is also on the website) Many have been 2 for 1s etc, promos to a couple of people in the industry and all that. $1.4M... I wish. Although some of the get rich quick type companies are turning half of that over every month... not in 2 years! I you were talking about Roicware Debug... puleeze don't make me laugh.

As for never laying a bet, I make more every month from the software than I do from selling it once the fat lady has sang and that is a well know fact amongst most users. In fact, recently we have been seeking investment to take all of our development and business to a whole new level (mainly development) but you won't ever read abut that stuff on the website as you would have been able to last year. If you can't tell by now, I'm quite open but hey with some things, once bitten twice shy. One such experience was even with one of the aforementioned companies in this thread wasn't it M***k?

There are other softwares out there for 4 times the cost of ours and mostly black box types that require little in the way of training unless the user doesn't know how to click a button. Sounds nice for the busy builder or farmer with no time to learn something else and do the training necessary to get serious results. I personally am doing huge amounts of time with training, support and everything else we do that I hardly see my family even though half the time I'm only in the next room. That is of course a common thread for most business owners THAT WORK FOR THEIR MONEY and most others in between I know.

We aren't doing the numbers you think because for one, the software is a little more complicated than say an automated dutch betting tool and secondly, we don't lie and or make ridiculous claims. The main part of the cost involved with this type of program is the time it takes to get people up to speed but once they are, they have much more freedom to adopt different strategies and all are unanimous in saying they learn a hell of a lot. So some will take a trifecta in the same race that someone else is only place betting. We have an open chat group for goodness sakes on Skype every Saturday where many of the clients participate between 11am and 3pm, chatting with each other and helping each other out. Tell me who would dare do that if they thought they were doing all of their clients an injustice especially considering i'm there every minute with them?? Even if they aren't chatting live, they're reading the recommendations from all of us who are and the newbies learn that way. If only you knew how hard we work you would say the same thing as others have... how come so cheap!!
You say...

***This program, and its website, are quite vague in a way other than to say oh yes we have testimonials but only after the live demo etc...why all the secrecy***

have you seen the competitors websites. They tell you nada other than rubbish about financial freedom from the comfort of your own home in 20 minutes or less with pretty pictures of beach scenery! Get real. But in the same breath I am noit about to let those I compete againsta know all and sundry about how all te mechanics of the software works and what our criteria is. That has already almost proven fatal and stuff that. (I've had companies ask if we would re badge our software and let them sell it. At first it sounded good... hey, no work, just get x per copy sold... but for $12,500. No way!)

I had every single detail about every conceivable thing you could do wit the software and the future plans we have for it and you know what, it was plagiarized. So if anyone is serious now the talk to us and they look at it and we shut up ad let the astute decide for themselves. For starters, yes we have plenty of them but people don't buy because someone else said so. They bu because it works and they get to see it make money and decide from there if te can do what we are showing them. If there were testimonials would you believe them would you?? Do you believe everything you read? Do you believe everything you see with your own two eyes? Which do you prefer? How about I run a competition with all the clients to see who can write the best testimonial for a prize of $10,000 to go towards your bank. You see? I know for a fact companies have done that and much much worse. For me and the people who do favour it, this method works ... I ring up and I say what does your software do? It gets exlained in detail without the BS (as far as I'm concerned at any rate) and I decide if I want to see it live or no thanks. Simple.

I get emails saying great website, direct ad no dream sell just to the point and then i get 'vague' and 'boring' and 'waffle'. Hey, you can please some of the people some of the time.... OOPS... I'm waffling. I will say this though, this thread turned into putting people down long before I lost my cool with PW and it was me copping it not anyone else. I am far from saying the non believing are dimwits I am saying I feel some people are arrogant and rude before they even know the facts of what we do and closed minded. Like I said before it's horses for courses.

My wifes uncle owns a well known fruit shop in Lismore... Busier than a one legged arse kicker. No computer and wouldn't have a bar of it but he makes a fortune through hours of hard work on form analysis and good on him. We often compare results and although he doesn't like it necessarily like it (really shits him at times ) that I can do what I do with software and knowing nothing about the race itself or the animals in it most of the time, but he respects that I like it and that it works for me regardless.

If you find me too frank and direct, well I make no apology (but for that I apologize - LOL). Thats what most people like about us and its the kind of people who we also attract and that mostly is someone with both feet firmly planted on the ground, not Mr or Mrs Dreamy looking for a way out of the rut but someone with money, time, intelligence, discipline and if punting savvy, depending on what that is they mostly must be willing to forget what they know or break old habits. So with the utmost of respect to someone I don't know other than in text which can often be misconstrued... puleeze don't expect me to act like Mr Brown Tongue just to appease the masses. It just aint' me

PS - I use my software e-v-e-r-y s-i-n-g-l-e d-a-y... Mostly when I win and it's a good day for me, the trained up clients will win and when they lose I perhaps lose (lately it's been hard and I think it's been hard for all punters, if it's hard for you guys doing the form its hard for us - mostly) Got all my TAB statements etc etc etc and some clients have seen them. I tell you, if people were a bit nicer, some of them may have more to say but they get shredded. How was PW with strozzi. Look up his ip... he's in bloody NZ. I'm in Lismore!! Of course we are going to get upset. Anyway, I guess it's supposed to be like water off a ducks back is it?

Just a quick note to all suffering from loss of work etc from the EI outbreak, There are many who wish they could do something to help. I personally know of 2 drivers that are about to sell their truck and my twin daughters are apprentice jockeys so I have seen how hard it is hitting some. Hang in there. It can't last forever.

For starters, I would never ever ever be able to match that price of $1400 and would never attempt to. You can't keep rebuilding software and do all that we do for people, at the level we do, at that cost. If we did all software at even $3,000 lets say, we would go out of business broke. I thought it was $2,500 or so. My mistake. Anyway, again I will say what has been said over and over...sorry.

The software is $7,900 with all the extras such as laptop, 3G card, tipping service amongst other things and the software alone is $5,900. As we speak we are busy rebuilding the software yet again and as such the price will then jump up again in line with the detailed and lengthy work that has gone into the rebuild and will very likely be up around the $6900 mark but that won't be decided upon until late October just before our release of Bettortrader Version 5.0. The standard package as seen on our website includes

Bettortrader software, a safety net $1,000 Trading Loss Guarantee for the first 3mths, Unlimited lifetime training and technical support, Free upgrades and 3 months complimentary Bettordata subscription valued at $285. That is with the $5,900 package. For $7,900, we load it all onto a laptop of high quality not a cheap heap but a Compaq Presario with 2GB dual core processor, plug in a 3G card with 6mths connection at a total value of around $300 just for the card and price of connection we shop around for and a subscription to Under The Radar which is our watchlist/tipping service + a heap of little tools and information on the laptop ready to go. Then there is the training and support that you would just fall over if you new the lengths we go to to make sure everyone is happy and the live chat every Saturday where all love to read the chats from the more experienced etc.

In this very competitive market I wont go into exactly why many prefer us over them or anyone for that matter and I prefer not to say at all. I prefer people make that decision when they speak to us and see the software. As with most things they either love it or they don't. Many love it and spome as just as many of you are on this thread, cautious but not particularly skeptical in the most ignorant sense i.e. they aren't completely closed minded to reason and even though they don't all buy they all agree that what we have is the real deal.

The important thing is that the buyer make up their own mind and not be told by the people they are perhaps thinking about buying off, that they are only ones to be trusted and everyone else is either a rip off shonk or the have a lame under developed product. Plenty would and do say such things. There are even some out there that say they are the only ones with the data feed they use whether that be Bettordata or webscraping and that they sell you an exclusive license to use it and thats why they are charging $14k plus. Whatever.

They say it is a lot more user friendly than others of this type i.e. using Bettordata and the selection criteria that are taught are unparalleled and that can only come from someone who has used this data for many years and who can then pass on that knowledge both in terms of software development and in terms of profiting from that data. All else falls by the wayside as so far as any negative comments from someone who doesn't know what we do and to the depth we commit ourselves to the client.

I wont try and justify our position on price on this thread. That is work well spent on potential clients and not here where all and sundry can see (competitors namely). I also don't think it should be a tit for tat type of thing.

Some things are truly priced at what they are worth. Some things aren't. The same applies to things that are cheaper. Some people like the AMG model Benz and some think why pay more for a badge. A Benz fan realizes it isn't just the badge. It takes someone who doesn't realize that to drive one and then perhaps they will understand (while their lunch settles back down). Then the differences become truly apparent. If not, oh well it just isn't their thing but for the Benz fan trying to convince the non Benz of the amazing differences behind that badge and the cost associated with it would be both frustrating and also perhaps pointless - especially if the 2 people we are talking about are the Benz salesman on one hand and somebody shopping for a Hyundai on the other that has never heard of AMG let alone afford one or even have any interest in hearing about them. What a bunch of waffle... I hate Benzs'.

The point I think I am trying to make is that there are vast differences in price NORMALLY because there is also more or less value. I can't say if that is true of a software that is more than double the price of ours because I don't know really as I have said in previous posts and again, I wont go into a tit for tat. If a person can't talk about the merits of his or her own products and services and defend themselves in that sense and must pick the flaws of all else around to step his or her own product/personality/service/ethic whatever up and justify their pricing in doing so, then in my view, that product or service is non existent and whenever I hear someone rubbish their competition to gain my trust they do the absolute opposite.

Now yes in the past I have been quite outspoken about the industry and what goes on but now I don't bother. It gets me in trouble. I will say one thing and that is if someone has wanted a good product that I have had good feedback on and they couldn't afford ours, I will recommend that product to them and do you know who that has been? Racemate. It used to be someone else but that someone else is a leech with no ideas or talent other than coding and they are opportunistic in so far as they are scanning to hear of everyone elses ideas that have taken YEARS to formulate through hard work and experience and plagiarizing them.

Racemate or any other program, either good or bad, is not the topic of this conversation and I know they are great guys there and don't deserve their name to be brought up in amongst this crap so let's move on. I would really appreciate it if no-one asked me to compare with other products or the like (not saying you did Debug but just in case that's what this turns into). Yes I know there are some I am sure people should stay away from but you won't hear them from me and this thread is not about anyone else. Do your homework. Cyberhorse is the place to start for most. If there is any negative with substance, it'll stand out don't you worry.

What people should be paying for is the surety of knowing the people they have just become involved with will actually care about them after the sale has gone through and that they have the experience to back it up and teach them all they need to know. That and cutting edge technology that does what the vendor says it does and the drive for a better product through research and development. What do you look for in a new car? Some don't really know the market and don't bet with their own software. How can they possibly sell software to people based on the premise that it works if they don't use it. This is just one of the things to look for when you evaluate a product and it starts with the sales person.

Anyway the bottom line here is that most of our clients are extremely happy with the service, the software and the way the business is run and that is the only thing that matters to me being that I am ultimately responsible for them. Not the company or the software.... ME. This thread started with someone insinuating a bad air around Bettortrader and mentioned my name and my home address in QLD and I responded to clear that air. Nothing more and nothing less. This should be the last there is to say and hopefully all this will be put to bed so I can go to mine.

Everyone talks about cheap software. Well if that's all that matters then I guess Dr Huang should be rolling in it. At 99cents a day it's a real steal. here you go.

http://www.drhuang.com/race/index.htm

Uses Bettordata I think and does all the selections for you, rates the runners. It does everything but cook your Sunday roast apparently. I guess that's why some of our clients have used that for a while and gotten their feet wet - software and money tracking wise, then when they have realized it isn't just about finding the cheapest software because they all do the same thing, have come and paid good money for ours and all the services we provide and most have reaped the rewards. Cheap does not always equal a good buy and again that is no reflection on any one in particular. Some of the softwares have not had any development for years. Some just do not back their software up with comprehensive training or knowhow, just push this button push that button and with some black box style programs that's all you really need to do I suppose it's horses for courses. Some are great.

It's up to you to do the groundwork and evaluate each product you see - and listen to your gut. We can all be like rabbits. We get caught in the headlights while someone gets their hand in the back pocket. Like a flee market in Thailand with all the bells and chaos, you have to have your wits about you. Take a breath, relax. Make the right choice. You don't have to hurry. These softwares will always be here. Get to know the people and understand the industry and what is on offer. You'll be surprised to some degree no doubt. If nothing else you'll know a bit more than you did yesterday.

Anyway, again I can't seem to grasp the concept of short and sweet or using my 'enter' key so I guess again I'll sign off for now. Please, understand if you can, justifying the product and the subsequent pricing is not about words and this to and fro' that goes on here. It is not a topic that is really open for debate. The very few copies that were sold at cheaper than full price were to experienced punters that have a wide network of other people in amongst the racing community and who would advocate our software and that was in the earlier days. Many of those people have since rewarded us with referrals and testimonials . That is testimony enough for me.

I have advocated for this industry to be cleaned up through legislation. I have even contacted other companies who I have thought are doing the right thing with a strong ethic to ask if they would get involved, and what do you think happened?? NADA! Not even from those who some on these forums swear by and trust and respect. So to the Fedaral MP in Lismore who I see quite regularly, I've been one man doing an armies job. No support from all those who swear the industry is full of shonks with no idea and with no care whether or not you just bought a $10k frisbee or a $15k coaster, just how many sales the staff have done for the week and not whisper from the companies that I approached that are selling their software cheap and going broke in the meantime just so they can compete with lying predators that promise the world and baffle unknowing people with powerful marketing skills and slick high pressure sales tactics.

We believe we are priced competitively given what we do in general, our development innovations, our training skills, customer focus and commitment to growth and development... we are priced in such a way that we are able to move forward and expand our horizons in order to achieve new heights for our clients and maintain the business to a standard that will provide longevity. Each client costs us around $3,500 in their first year in phone calls support, training, upgrades, license fees payable to our development team for their hard work, data at $65 per month for the first 3mths and an hour each week in training. That's 52 hours odd at approx $46 per hour. Now, Target for instance, buy cheap products from overseas and sell them with a 1000% (conservative) mark up as with most imported goods now from places like China. Businesses are in business to make money. Most businesses aim for a around a 100& profit margin. We have a around a 50% - 60% profit margin at the full price and you want to argue with me about what that price is? Sorry, I know you don't want to argue. I'm tired. Look, there are many reasons for cheaper goods, but to be honest, it is not logistically possible for us to do so with all that we do and again, I mean all with the utmost of respect. Bye

You've spent hours on this thread telling us how people shouldn't rubbish your product and that it isn't right that people mention opposition products in a poor light.

Just in the last post you've named atleast 3 companies and bagged them all.

You've also stated, in similar wording, that any company that sells cheaper than you doesn't give as much value, anyone who is more expensive than you is a ripoff artist and anyone who says they can make more money than you say your software can, is a basically a fraud.

I think we've had enough of this commercial.

Cheers,

F.C.

Cheers

Maka

Makadollar

...Don't you dare try and insinuate I put this company down. How could you read it that way? Explain to me how it is I have rubbished anyone? Should be easy to just cut and paste exactly what I said without you taking it out of context if that is possible for you. This is really boring now. Much like shoveling sand against the tide. There will always be something to whine about and to have a go at and that will, mostly always come from those with absolutely no respect or idea what they are talking about and this case, that is this business, its software a services, our clients, myself and my family. Our clients love us. You guys don't. Hmmmm. Am i missing something here? I don't think so. You don't know me. You don't know my intentions and have tried hard to misconstrue everything I have said. So what is the point to all of this exactly? Don't tell me you're affiliated with one of these companies ad it is your mission in life to put us down or something. You aren't attacking just the company but also myself and questioning my integrity. Well do either of you have any?? If so you wouldn't be leading the thread in this way. You wouldn't be attacking based on crap. You would respect the fact that no, we don't have any complaints and nowhere will you find a bad word about us... except here and from who? Total strangers who know jack squat about me or my company. I have put out the challenge. Cal me personally. Hey my numbers are all over the place including my mobile. It isn't that hard. But no, again, this is like your virtual cyberpunching bag not cyberhorse and neither of you care if you are wrong or right or who it is you are affecting, only that you can all feel much better in knowing you at least had your say and "yeah, I told him didn't I" No one has said anything that means anything. Why are people so quick to judge and blatantly defame people with whom they have never dealt with or known. Look around guys, I have been an open book throughout all of this but no not good enough. Look at the posts from the people who DO own software that they feel ripped off by. We are not one of them. Some of these remarks i do feel are approaching being defamatory and it is not justified.

We all cop criticism. Put up with it.

Those you rubbished are;

Dr Huang, Merc and any company that competes with yours.

Saying something is cheap, is rubbishing.

Saying things like "I hate" etc is rubbishing.

Saying something along these lines might help.

"oh, do they have a similar product? We know there are other comparable products out there, we're not too sure just how close they come to ours. To be truthful, we are just flat out keeping up with the supply and development of ours. We know we should be aware of other products and thank you for giving us some feedback on what our competitors are up to." "By the way have you noticed this feature of our product ?"

Now isn't that nicer and more likely to help win a sale than just blasting the oppo.

They usually use simple racing programs that are based on dutching, following the money market value trends of individual runners and/or distributing bets over standout exotics ( quinellas, trifectas etc).

Thanks for your words of wisdom. For what it's worth, I started with the best intentions and believe those intentions have been maintained. I and others have assumed this thread perhaps was not so and that type of post does mostly come from to start a thread bashing for reasons that need no explanation.

I do not rubbish whoever is in competition unless they are a fraud and have done good people for their money and lots of it and even THEN i will not mention names as can be seen here. I mentioned DH (who I will mention no further) to make a point. People are constantly ripping into vendors over price. If price was the determining factor to everything... no sorry... my bad... I'm retaliating and being argumentative. I really should be more diplomatic so I can get more sales and forget sharing what I know and trying to educate and safeguard people who aren't in the know... whatever. Perhaps you are right... no you definitely are. Yes, I could be more business like about all of this and waffle on a like a 'plum in mouth' twat with BS about our 76.0232% strike rate over the last 6mths for place betting and 39% for wins paying over $4. I am not backwards in coming forwards. I wish I could hold my tongue at times yes but I feel (probably stubbornly at times) that people are better off letting it all out in the open.

Yes, politically speaking in that one post, someone may argue, if they were that way inclined and trying perhaps to antagonize rather than get to the guts of the topic, that I have mentioned these names during that topic with a negative connotation. If there has been anyone offended in doing so, I apologize wholeheartedly to only one of them, DH. If you think I give a hoot about Mercedes Benz and using them in an example which was hardly a insult in itself... far out... you are I suppose, a clinical and exacting person who I am sure would make a good case of it of you were a lawyer in court but anyone who's eyes aren't painted on would understand it was not meant to offend... oops, now you're going to say, that I am saying that I think your eyes are painted on... this could go on for ever and now you could say, I am assumptive and I think I know everything. I'm sure you will find something... oh yes I found it, I suggested you are antagonistic.

Debug,

Let me get this part out of the way first before someone suggests it's perhaps an ulterior motive. From a business point of view, legislating this industry would obviously benefit anyone with a decent software tool and services.
It would give people interested in using such tools, the major benefit of being protected by an industry watchdog. Like I have said before, no one that I have approached cares and they are some of the people who if mentioned, you guys would be most bewildered seeing how long you have been members. I have tried to develop an acquaintance with many companies to open this topic and have met closed doors and minds.
The little company trying to do things to offer value either by being low priced or by offering better value or better software etc etc - than things up to 20 times their price, I guess is scared that all the fuss will have a negative affect on them as well, so just let sleeping dogs lie (or perhaps it's something more sinister that some are worried about - who knows).

There are quite a few good softwares on the market but most struggle due to factors I will not go into other than to say, if you were a massively high priced product with lots of money already behind you, the opportunity to hit every home in Australia with big marketing dollars with the sole intent of making more dollars, telling them about the 50k tax free they can make in 20mins a day by pushing a button... "look at the pretty colours dear..."

Then they speak to someone like us or others and they want to hear the same thing. You know, "hey, I've been digging trenches my whole life and my back is stuffed. I need a way out. I don't know zip about making money, punting, trading, racing and really I don't even know how to use a calculator let alone the computer but this mob said don't worry about all that, we'll help you"
"can you do the same?" hmmm, let me think...

Well, you could say that success is about a whole bunch of things and I am sure the present company would not need that explained and it isn't going to all of a sudden come just from a bit of software. You could give someone $1M that doesn't have any idea how to make money grow, or manage it or who have even ever really seen too much of it and in two years they could be perhaps worse off than before you gave it to them. In the same way, I have seen people punt, trade or otherwise (et al) out of desperation and get nowhere fast! I have seen others with a different attitude make bucket loads and the difference was mentality and discipline. You see some on a losing streak and if they don't win back they will face whatever, let's say no petrol to get home from the TAB, whatever. They throw whatever strategy and discipline they had out the window and act out of desperation. Well it isn't just bloodstock racing punters that act that way. Some people will take a punt on anything if it will save them from their own mess or promise them riches quick and the greater the need, the more the will pay for it. You have some companies offering finance for goodness sake (I wont swear) and suggesting to go and re finance their houses and use their equity. This isn't Blue Chips. This is racing. This IS speculative. Now some software works very well yes, no doubt, but to tell people to go mortgage their houses for 20k and "get the missus working from home while you go drive the truck all day" in my book is another example of mans inhumanity to man. Some of these people are retirees worried if they have enough to get them through, some are invalid. Whatever your disposition it will be said "all the more reason you need to buy this" with no bias, indiscriminant and ruthless. To some I speak to, I say make this your last call to a horse racing software company and make your next call to a financial advisor... or a counselor.

There needs to be a code of ethics and a stand alone regulatory body. Not everyone can make money this way. Some people are destined for the 9 'til 5 (5 'til 5). Now there will be someone again say that somehow I am not being politically correct I am sure. I hope to one day, see that idea supported by other like minded companies for many, many reasons. Share market progs' for instance, you need a license from ASIC and you can't guarantee future returns or even predict them. That would at least be a start. Someone asks me how much they will make. How do I know? I don't have a crystal ball. Entering a speculative market and then guaranteeing returns or defining actual amounts like "if you start with $1000 capitol you will make $50k in your first year", is just amazing. How do people do that? No really, please tell me.

Dinodog - Before you say anything about attacking trench diggers LOL... I've done plenty of hard labour... more than I'd like to think about. Hey, for instance, when I was 16 I started a little company hand digging swimming pools when machinery couldn't get in the property. BTW, read over my posts Dinodog. There has been plenty of business I have handed to other suppliers or at least shown people the way to get there. You seem intent on this topic. What is your agenda? I know mine is not using this forum to sell our goods as you have said and I haven't even given the software a plug yet really. Stupid me. 9000 words or whatever it was that someone counted before with Wordcount no doubt (you can add another thousand or so by now) and not even a worthy mention? Just maybe Dinodog, my intentions ARE honourable and you can misconstrue every little detail all you want. This isn't about you and I haven't wanted it to seem like it is just all about me, the company or the software, either. So please, let's start again shall we?

I see you are another who felt so overwhelmed with the compulsion to add his two cents worth, that you even joined Cyberhorse the day of your post just to do it. Or are you all the same person?? Ha, this wouldn't be the first time and it wont be the first time I've asked for it to be legally looked into either.

If you are to do nothing but follow late plunges on the market movers you WILL lose money. In saying that, there are plenty of prorams around that reportedly follow this money and as such many of those users also lose. Software is only a part of it Guzzlr... you have to know the market and know what is making the money move which then can save you from following the blind and backing faves in every race. We were on To A Fault and my TAB account proves it. But being the gutless wonder that you seem to be, hiding behind a new username on a forum, you of course will never get to see it or the software as that is not your goal is it.

To A Fault was hit 25minutes before the designated jump and as such blew out as you noticed, with the money coming for the faves' as it always does in the last 5mins which then pushed the price of To A Fault up. Considering we NEVER back favourites regardless of what they are doing, I hardly imagine any of us would have fit the description of a 'battle weary client'. If they did, they would be posting in droves with all the other products mentioned all over this forum/website.

What you saw was nothing in that, we look for that kind of money every day. Over the odds and backed in such a way that you would never have a hope of seeing it using the tote boards. Did you know we look at all 3 TABs? Did you know money is at times spread out over the 3. Do you follow the home tote or just NSW or whatever your home tote is? Can you see how much money is put on each runner as it is placed with only a 20sec delay? No because the totes are still shortening half way around the race. There are so many things you don't about us that it makes your whole argument so weak and to be honest, I don't want to argue. I want to get along and SHOW people what a great product it is, not waffle on about it here. I wish I could post screen shots. That would end so much of this crap.

We don't do a thing or say a thing about how much money you will make in a year or any of that rubbish but we can show you. We swear by a code of ethics. We have software that works well that everyone is happy with. We support our clients beyond the call of duty, we train people in depth and pass on what we know. We passionately commit to new development with our up and coming release to be tings that even the biggest of pro punters will jump up and down about. Speaking of which Guzzlr, do you not think the serious pro'punters use software? If your answer is no, I could point you in the direction of numerous articles such as in Practical Punting Monthly etc in interviews with people I wont mention here but will be happy to pass on to you and some who are even using ours. You say most people are lucky to make back their outlay. We have plenty of clients who would argue that point. There are some who have made over $2,000 in one afternoon let alone consistently make their grand a week.

You see, not all are touting get rich quick to mums and dads. We don't have to really tout anything other than "here, have a look at this, if you dont like it dont buy it" because we dont have to. When people see it they know it's more than viable. Not all have a 'system' as you put it that would tell us 'to plunge on the number 2' with the click of a button and no way to do anything else. Most of those are black box and mostly webscrapers or the like. W

What we can see in the data feed after our algorithm has converted the dividend changes into dollars placed is what you have perhaps thought about for years... the money! Seeing the actual money. So while you are talking about market movers from the TABs that are up to 90sec delayed and then have to take the plunge and pick the best market mover and hope it wasn't a red herring i.e. why did it shorten etc, we can see why the divi changed and how much money did it and that is just the start. So, in last years Melbourne Cup when no one could follow the dividend fluctuations in a pool the size of the $17M+ in each of the TAB win pools alone, we saw a massive plunge on Delta Blues which saw it increase from $946 placed in the 60secs from 120secs before jump time until 60seconds before jump time then in the next update showed $30,000 which came in the next 60seconds alone!! The race started 2minutes late.

The way we can get money off to the 3 TABs means it only takes 2seconds to be on with Unitab and 5seconds with NSW and VIC. The new upgrade will mean you can also send off to Betfair as well and we will be using their live bet stream to follow betting patterns there as well. There will also be a ratings system for standouts, exotics and multiples etc. The data will also now include one of Australias most comprehensive form data feeds which also includes barrier trials and will crunch numbers prior to a race faster and more accurately than you could do in the week prior to the meeting with all the form analysts you could think of... and that is just the beginning.

We are NOT looking to follow the crowd and therefore would never back a favourite. You speak of doing the hard yards with form etc. This has been explained over and over. We follow the smart money and we do it coupled with strategy that I will not be giving YOU for free. The races at Moonee Valley Friday night? I had 1 negative result. Yesterday at Hong Kong? 2 wins 2 places and the rest of the day was awesome. What do I know about HK form? NADA!

So get rich quick? For some maybe, for others maybe not. I don't have a crystal ball. The best software in the country? Yes we believe so... by far. Imagine, you're out and about and you have set the criteria yourself being the big know it all you are you should love this. So you tell the software what criteria you are looking for in so fa as form and then money movement and the software sends you YOUR tips to your mobile phone. Oh Guzzlr, you really have no idea who we are what we stand for or anything really. It's sad. I really was hoping this thread would evolve into an intelligent conversation. Perhaps most are smart enough to know along with our clients that any positive comment added to this particular discussion would be met with "yeah right mate, did they pay you to say that?", or "do you work for them do you?"

Regardless of the amount of times I have offered the opportunity to put your money where your mouth is, to those with all the put downs and negative comments about something they have never even seen let alone used, the call never comes. Being that is the case and being that it is blatantly obvious most i this thread are only out to cause malicious harm to my business, myself and my family I have this to say...

After acting on legal advice let it first be said that I will no longer offer any any further credibility to such ludicrous remarks, accusations or other such negatives and wish to notify Cyberhorse of our intention to subpoena details of offending users for the purpose of prosecution and put the said website and its owners on notice for facilitating such slanderous material.

It has gone on long enough. The moderators have continually ignored my requests to have it seen to and in my highly speculative view, perhaps the affiliations the site has with other software is behind it all. Who knows, it will all come out in the wash.

The very same people who have decided it their mission to rubbish my company and my product and inadvertently our clients our employees and our families without considering that we are not who they are insinuating we are and who have not even taken it upon their almighty highly authoritative and informed selves, to find out by getting in touch with us, are the same people that can be seen in just about any part of this site that revolves around having a whine, insulting people or in other ways being derogatory (although to some I can perhaps understand why when you have apparently dozens of actual customers saying something). Are you people paid to do this? Do you get off on antagonizing people and indiscriminately setting to do harm to anything you either do not believe in, do not understand or know nothing about? Well off you go, you now have the stage. It's all yours.

If someone is serious about trying to defame us then firstly, do it right. Call us, look at the software over the course of a week or so and THEN say it isn't more than a valid tool to add to your arsenal... we know it is and the clients know that. So before you appear more silly than you already do, perhaps you should find out they that is.

Being we are now approaching a huge shift in direction and company growth so far as development and the release of our new software etc, this time is far too hectic for me to continually come back here to give credence to such inappropriate, derogatory remarks. Over the next few months we intend on appearing on numerous Sky Racing shows in conjunction with our nationwide advertising and appearances at sponsored race meetings etc where some of you will get to see us first hand.

Yes I know it is hard to sort the dolphins from the sharks but does that mean you start shooting dolphins because you saw the tip of a fin? In my previous posts I have mentioned with passion my thoughts on legislation and a code of conduct. That should speak volumes. My name is all over the web. Our contacts are plain as day. Our website is not suggesting to all and sundry that they will become wealthy over night nor do our staff. The software is cutting edge and does all we say it does. Yes, most people make good money with it. Yes, some people have lost with it. Through a more stringent criteria on selecting our prospects and by presenting the software and our strategies in a totally honest and upfront factual way, people who are not suited can usually make the decision for themselves that they should not buy. Since we have implemented such a practice, the failure rate has been minimized to 4%. Much better than the share market which has a 67% failure rate (some say 90%) of traders.

Other than what I have said here, there is no further I could possibly add... ever. So again all I can say is that for those that do not know the software, the company or myself that must persist in posting slanderous posts, the matter has now been referred to our legal representative and those in breach will be pursued. If you do not think it can happen, seek legal advice.

For those reading this that have stumbled upon it during the course of our suggested due diligence, you already know what you know after talking to us and after seeing and using our products first hand. The rest is up to you.

Why cant you just leave all this alone and go pamper your clients like you say you do...

Makadollar

If that is not viable for you then you are not here for public interest are you? You are not here to convey the truth. You are here to cause trouble. For your information his has not one single affect on our generating business in fact it has meant lots of people who know who you guys are have rang us for demos and although they haven't all bought for various reasons and some just wanted to see what all the fuss is about, there is not one who has said that it isn't all we say it is and more.

I will say this, yes I have become quite emotional through all of this in response to blatant accusations and being tarred with the same brush as some others that are not smiled upon. I bag others with unnecessary language? What like, "moron, you don't know what you are on about" yes and I will again if someone insults me. The more that people insult us and the product and the more they continue speculating and assuming what we do and don't do and the more that leads to putting the company in a bad light then obviously, Einstein, I will be getting quite irate.

I can fully understand the level of skepticism out there amongst the punters because you know how much hard work goes into doing what you do and the way you do it. That's fine. But do us all a favour please. Put your money where your mouth is. If not then just stop because all you are doing is causing trouble for someone who does not deserve such and saying all the things that are being said are not conveying your message properly because you don't know the subject matter... Bettortrader.

Put yourselves in our shoes, we are doing a great thing for people which is why there is no substance to all the negatives here other than the message of buyer beware with which I could not agree more... but there are no clients who agree with ANY of you regarding our software. There has been one client try and have his say and he was cut down and called a liar.

Regardless of all the negatives and questioning as to the viability of our software from members in this thread, there is one very important fact you all seem to be forgetting. You don't know it, you haven't seen it and you don't know how we use it. You don't know about our staking plans, our selection criteria, our success rates, our clients and how much they are or are not making and not one of you has tried to look at the positives but are intent on shedding light on the negatives which are negatives in your narrow minded views not the views of the clients and or anyone else that takes the time to look at what we have. IN FACT... we have just had our 4th sale in under a week as a result of this thread. Thanks guys for giving me the chance to get my point across. Thats not what this was intended to be but hey, I'm not complaining. For those that think it bad of me to e so straight up and to the point without beating around the bush, you are then probably better off hearing it from a want-to-be plum in the mouth young gun sales person who is so desperate for a sale that he will say anything just to appease you and get the sale.

As I have said many times before, I have been an pen book here and now after talking to a bunch of stubborn cynics and blatant trouble makers for so long now about how they think they are right and we are wrong but have no idea what about exactly, I finally give up. This shouldn't be so nasty. I am most likely a large part of it leading that way but the original post was to defend our position regarding someone mentioning that we ripped off the name which was always showing up on Google. Then people started about the software and how it couldn't work. It started with people attacking me and my product and my company. Sorry if I took it to heart. I could imagine some of you would get fairly upset as well if you were in my shoes.

I mean no harm and apologize whole heartedly if anyone has been genuinely offended throughout this. Perhaps we could all go away and cool down and then if it is of interest, we could have an open discussion about various things but at the moment it is a case of me vs you guys. The only way I could really stand up for all I have said is to show you all the product and talk about what we do. I don't really feel as though I have an open though so best I walk away. Thank you all for your inputs though. Obviously you are all passionate about what you believe and that can never be a bad thing. I just wish you had more of an open mind as well. If anyone would like to chat further about any of this r take a look at the software tio either clarify or debunk your assumptions please be my guest but here is obviously not the place. I can't reason here without showing the product and live results. Also I must add that I see nowhere, anyone offering any real information as to things that do work or the concepts behind them and especially not from the owner. I could have had one of the girls sweet as pie from customer service post a standard response and left it a that but I thought people may like to hear from the horses mouth so to speak. In hindsight, I wish I didn't bother now. Thanks again everyone.

Why don’t you put them on your web site. It is said that a picture is worth a thousand words.

WOW! You have been busy Raceman. Joining all these forums just to have your little say. I don't know who you are but we are in the midst of finding out In the meantime, let me tell you something you don't know.

My grandfathers name was Bruce Wyld from The Oaks near Camden. He owned, trained and drove trotters. One of his champions was Captain Gay who won a few at Harold Park and Penrith. I worked in stables while I decided what I wanted to do for years as a kid. My teenage twin daughters are apprentice jockeys one of whom was just recently in Pt Macquarie and the other in Mudgee.

My father was big bettor and spent most of his time at the TAB or on the track. I have spent up to 12hours a day continuously for 5 years in front of the computer looking at at nearly every race of every day and still do. I use the Bettortrader software every day with Bettordata to make money AND have shown plenty of others how to AND have the TAB accounts to prove it and the voice of the clients. However, I never placed a bet in my life until 1999 with the first program I tried. Now I don't call that a wealth of experience compared to some people but then I'm not as old as some either. We have specialised in bringing the best possible service and most cutting edge product for 3 years to people with huge acclaim.

We have the most successful support networks in the industry with group chats that you certainly have never been a part of because... you are not a client! We do more for people than any other company in the industry, have a better program and training than any other company and more satisfied clients which is why you have become so reckless. Fact. So what really is the problem here? Are we hurting your business? Did you get left behind? Do you wish you had what we have? Have we taken business from you?

What you have said and done here to defame my family name and my business is not going to be swept under the carpet. Far from it. How dare you call me a scam. Look in the mirror. Or can't you? We are doing our best to get in touch. Until then, happy blogging all over the place leaving your footprint everywhere.

For anyone reading this, let the true clients speak for themselves. We are the best. There is no doubt in anyones mind. Be skeptical. That's fine, but the results of the LIVE demonstrations speak for themselves as do the group chats which are all time stamped in Skype and have been for over a year.

This malicious slander is undeserving and below the belt. Please use your better judgment. Put yourselves in our shoes for minute. This software business has been built on a reputation of not delivering. We break the rules and deliver and we get this frmo someone obviously extremely affected.

I also apologise to those who are looking around at these things. It must make it very hard to trust anyone with this sort of carry on. To the clients as well who have had friends and family see all of this. You know what you know I guess but it still makes things hard.

Again to Cyberhorse, this is all a little transparent don't you think? Will you please look into this? I don't know how that may happen, but surely you jest if you are going to say this is not what we all see that it is.

Regards,
Kevin Riddell
Director

the wisdom of a crowd

Jeeeesh!

If all you critics of Bettor Trader Software program used the same energy to write your crap, and learn something about racing rather than debunk this program, you would be very rich indeed!

Yes, I am a Bettor Trader user.
Yes, I enjoy support second to none.
Yes I like the honesty and help I receive, whenever I need it.

I looked at a lot of programs and listened to a lot of bunkim, and kissed a lot of frogs, before I bought this program.
I got up-front honesty, genuineness, and no sales pressure.
And talking of honesty, I’m not being paid to post this.

Now, the Program requires some intelligence to use.
That’s probably why most of you haven’t bought it.

If you have looked at a lot of programs you will know there are several programs available that do the same functions as Bettortrader at a much cheaper cost. So what attracted you to this one?

Hi Kevin

Business bad lately?

Nothing on subject from 18th Feb, and then on 26th March, Mr Riddell
decides his business needs more promoting?
Have to careful that we stress how honest we are too.
And then, and then, we have the follow up from ?????, telling us all about honesty and ethics also!!

Yawn, so predictable. Exactly the same pattern as last time.

This from Mr Riddell......"We have specialised in bringing the best possible service and most cutting edge product for 3 years to people with huge acclaim."

So I did what anybody else would do and Googled, hoping to find some of this acclaim.
None to be found!! I wonder why.
Perhaps Mr Riddell would be so kind as to point us the way of some of this acclaim?
If it's not independently verifiable, then it's only hot air.

And if you can make sufficient yourself, then why bother?
Hot air it is.

pw

Debug - there may be cheaper but if you find anyone that does even half of what we do and have even half of the knowledge required to do what we do for people for a lessor cost, I will pay you! I will give you the software even... for free! Regarding the actual software, I will be very surprised if you can show me one that does all that Bettortrader does, no matter what cost.

PW - here you are again. Great to see you. LOL. Welcome to the 'lets defame Bettortrader party'. What human being wouldn't want to come in & defend themselves against being accused of doing harm to people or otherwise conning, deceiving etc. Marketing? You are joking? You have seen the general gist of this thread haven't you? You have been one of the main instigators here.

The people who say our product & service is the best on the market aren't fools who came down in the last shower. There are plenty of them & all have the same thing to say. Now not all have been as successful as others & there are a few stories of no success at all but most are making a killing. Therefore, our software is highly acclaimed. Acclaimed by who PW? The clients. Those that matter.

To be honest, I would love nothing more than to scream it from the roof tops but no matter how things are marketed in this industry, there are always people who think there is a catch or an ulterior motive or scam. So whatever. I can't win. Say what you will. The bottom line is, we sell a tool and unequaled service and I, along with MANY others, firmly believe it to be the most featured money tracking software on the market - and it works... very well. That can not be argued with.

All clients are privy to group chats and members only forums to share ideas and learn everything they can from as many angles as possible. They are supported & communicated with every week. The support & training methods are cutting edge. Our strategies are such that we attract huge value from our winnings.

I would happily meet with you to compare TAB accounts and see how we go on any given Saturday. You do things your way, I'll do it our way. The offer has been there before & you didn't take it up then & of course you'll remain to hide behind your pseudonym to come out every now and then to raise a stir just as you have in many areas of this website. Can I ask you something PW? Have you been burnt?

You are right, this is very boring now and is my last post on the matter.

BT Daily Transaction Report (Client details omitted)
Date Jump Race Selection(s) Bet Tab Cost Live Paid
03/04/2008 13:00 R1 @ CRANBOURNE 3 WP NSW 12.0 True 35.20
03/04/2008 14:25 R4 @ GRAFTON 7 WP NSW 12.0 True 28.0
03/04/2008 14:35 R3 @ MACKAY 10 WP NSW 12.0 True 41.0
03/04/2008 14:55 R1 @ ASCOT 2 WP NSW 12.0 True 36.0
03/04/2008 17:27 R5 @ ASCOT 3 WP NSW 12.0 True 0.0
03/04/2008 19:44 G3 @ SANDOWN 5 WP NSW 12.0 True 29.0
03/04/2008 19:57 R9 @ ASCOT 5 WP NSW 12.0 True 28.0
03/04/2008 20:28 G5 @ SANDOWN 7 WP NSW 12.0 True 24.0
03/04/2008 20:28 G5 @ SANDOWN 2 WP NSW 12.0 True 0.0
03/04/2008 22:30 G9 @ HOBART 4 6 WP NSW 24.0 True 55.0
Bet Type WP
Total bets 132.00 Ret' 276.20

This is a beginner client thus the small each way bet amounts at level stakes rather %betting. Some tripled the above % return today.

All the best.

Kevin Riddell
Bettortrader

the wisdom of a crowd

Defaming Bettortrader???? Rather fanciful don't you think?
I never even mentioned the name!
I simply asked you to point out some links that are independently verifiable and show this 'acclaim' that you claim.
I am still waiting.
It's obvious that you can't, because otherwise you would do so in an instant.

As for me, I don't claim anything, so I don't believe I have anything to prove. Not to you, nor to anybody else.
Nor have I anything to sell.

The only places I have ever been on this forum is the punters one right here, and that is simply because I despise people that try to flog misery.
And if you could have been 'burnt' as badly as me, then you would likely be a very happy man with no need to flog anything.
You see I know much more about it than you do, and I don't even need to know how much you know!

Spruiking to the end, eh Kevin??
Those figures are there to impress?
Completely unverifiable of course, and 1 day means nothing in any case, even if correct.
At least I am pleased to see you will not be spruiking on this forum anymore.
I wouldn't take bets on it though!!!

I would hate to think that after all the effort the site has vanished?

Maka

Goodluck

Since you did respond perhaps you can explain this “cutting edge” product. I am not sure what is cutting edge about it.

Thank you for the free offer of the program but I have copy of my own version residing somewhere in the dusty archives of my hard drive that I wrote several years ago.

Perhaps RR is still out there waiting to reply.