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Talaki
Member since 20-Mar-05
549 posts
29-Feb-08, 03:58 PM (AEST)
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"Old Warmblood Stallions"
 
   I recognize lots of the old names in Australian Warmblood Pedigree's (such as King and Duellschutz etc) but never know who/what they were. It is normally possible to find their breeding but not what they did or if they produced any progeny of note.

So I was thinking we could start a discussion about some of the "old boys".

I guess I can only comment on 2:

Winterkoenig - Woermann x Pik Koenig, Imported licensed Hannoverian stallion 1979, 17hh+ Dark Brown, Imported as a 3yo. Recently deceased.
Sire of many successful dressage and eventing progeny including Wiking, Australian WEG representative.

Daktylus - Diskus x Absatz, Imported licensed Hannoverian stallion 1979, 16.2hh Grey, Imported as a 3yo, competed to A & B level showjumping (from memory) Died in 1993.
Sire and Grand Sire of many top showjumpers such as D'Artagnan & Warlord etc. Sire of some FEI level dressage horses.

So if anyone could comment on any of the other significant "oldies" like King, Duellschutz, Falkland, Monopol, Romedio etc, please do, it will be an interesting and informative discussion!


www.kksequestrian.com.au


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Old Warmblood Stallions skymare 29-Feb-08 1
  RE: Old Warmblood Stallions jamie 01-Mar-08 2
     RE: Old Warmblood Stallions Bats_79 01-Mar-08 3
     RE: Old Warmblood Stallions Bats_79 01-Mar-08 4
         RE: Old Warmblood Stallions phoenix_wb 03-Mar-08 5
             RE: Old Warmblood Stallions Talaki 04-Mar-08 6
                 RE: Old Warmblood Stallions frogfriday 04-Mar-08 7
                     RE: Old Warmblood Stallions Talaki 04-Mar-08 8

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skymare
Member since 28-Mar-07
1413 posts
29-Feb-08, 07:29 PM (AEST)
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1. "RE: Old Warmblood Stallions"
In response to message #0
 
   and any pictures would be good too! sorry, talaki, i can't contribute in any meaningful way. not knowledgable on warmbloods.

The best steel comes from the hottest
forge.


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jamie
Member since 10-Jun-06
458 posts
01-Mar-08, 02:10 PM (AEST)
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2. "RE: Old Warmblood Stallions"
In response to message #0
 
LAST
 
I'm no help with any solid fact on the old boys either, must admit I just can't remember many of the hard facts any more. I can tell you what I remember about a few of the stallions though just from being around them at the time, if that's of any use at all?

Abel Tasman, King, Duellshultz, Valuta, Granada and Kilof were all based down here at the old AEA at Ocean Grove when they first came out and I was working nearby at Koombahla and training regularly at the AEA at the time, so I got to see a fair bit of them. I remember Abel Tasman as okay but nothing special and I recall wondering after first seeing him (he was the first warmblood stallion I'd seen in the flesh) what all the big deal about 'warmbloods' was, King I never warmed to at all, I rally didn't like anything much about him, Granada and Kilof never really jumped out at me although Kilof was raved about then, Val seemed really modern and different from all of the others and I thought he was lovely to watch albeit nothing gobsmacking, and Duellschultz I just adored. He wasn't a pretty horse but from what I saw of him he always struck me as exactly what I thought a good sport horse sire should look like, and I've also liked a lot of his progeny and grand-progeny I've seen since.

Monopol belonged to friends of Michelle Wilson who owned/owns his son Heini and I'd known Michelle from when I worked at Tony Uytendaal's and Michelle was training there. So when my husband and I went and stayed at Michelle's place in Queensland for a few days at one point she took us around and showed us Monopol, Lander and a lot of their progeny. Lander and his progeny never impressed me much, most of those I saw didn't really seem to be able to move, but I saw a lot of lovely horses either by Monopol or out of Monopol mares so I was really impressed with him. In fact I'd say that I saw more progeny and grandprogeny I liked of Monopol and Duellshultz at that time than by any of the other local warmblood stallions I 'knew'. Anyway, I don't know if any of that's remotely helpful but I figured it didn't hurt to jot it down just in case.

Kelly.


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Bats_79
Member since 2-Apr-04
1513 posts
01-Mar-08, 08:15 PM (AEST)
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3. "RE: Old Warmblood Stallions"
In response to message #2
 
   Romedio
Born: 1972
Colour: Grey
Height: 172 cm
Stem: 730b

Romedio was one of the early stallions imported to Australia. He was a large, energetic and athletic horse with faultless conformation and temperament. He bred horses in Australia that were successful in dressage, showjumping and breeding.

In Germany he won a Premier Champion Foal, Premier Champion Yearling, and was hugely successful at the 2 1/2 year old stallion selection and the 100 Day Test. In fact, at the stallion selection he scored an amazing 84% or 47 out of a possible 56. He received the maximum 7 out of 8 for five categories and 6 out of 8 for two categories.

Romedio left a lasting legacy in Australia as a sire of stallions and broodmares. He is now represented in the third and fourth generations of riding and breeding horses.

Other Stallions of the same Stem as Romedio include; Le Grande I, II, & III, Caletto I, II & III, Montanus, Coronado and many more.

Sire: Rigoletto x Ramzes. Rigoletto is a household name in the showjumping world. A successful sire in Holstein he was then sold to the Netherlands where he became a keur stallion, favoured by many breeders. He has countless successful sons and daughters in the showjumping field and now his grand and great grand progeny are reaching the heights.

Dam: Waldenserin x Waldenser XX. Waldenserin was a successful showjumping mare by the improvement sire Waldenser. Waldenser carries two crosses of the famous Dark Ronald who has had so much impact on the breeding of jumping horses. Waldenser sired an enormous number of successful broodmares but his most famous offspring at the moment is undoubtedly Sandro who is out of a daughter of the Waldenser son, Wahnfried. Therefore Romedio and Sandro Hit share a similar cross of Ramzes and Waldenser.

Romedio's first crop of foals in Germany left several good riding horses and broodmares including:

Olerma - dam of Lyra (by Lord). Winner of the European series of the 1994 Volvo World Cup.

In Australia his success was much more obvious and he was a super cross with some lines of TB mares - particularly Better Boy blood. From this cross came the Grand Prix dressage stallions Mountbatten, Rubens (Miguel & Di Tavora), Snowview Romboli (David Quick) and Heatherton Park Roanoke (Emmy Schmul) and the jumping horse Rembrandt. He is now also the grand sire of a growing number of sport horse sires and broodmares including many of the stock from JK Holsteiner stud in NZ through the Brokeford bred stallion JK Sacramento (Siegfried x Romedio) sire of Grand Prix dressage horse JK Supersonic.


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Bats_79
Member since 2-Apr-04
1513 posts
01-Mar-08, 09:02 PM (AEST)
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4. "RE: Old Warmblood Stallions"
In response to message #2
 
   LAST
 
Flaneur
Born: 1963
Colour: Grey
Height: 175 cm
Stem:

Flaneur was purchased in Germany by Mr Don Paul. Don had been in Germany following WWII and was impressed by the local horses he had seen - particularly in the Holstein area where the land was particularly heavy and owners were proud of their horses jumping ability. The dam of the world famous mare Halla was reknowned for leaping the drains at will.

When Don Paul returned to Australia he witnessed the growing fascination with European style competition and thought that one of the stallions from the Holstein region would be perfect. He purchased from Germany the classified and tested stallion Flaneur.

As a 2yo Flaneur was only "large" he didn't grow to his HUGE proportions until a late maturing adult. He was still a much larger horse than the Germans wanted but Don Paul thought this would be an advantage in Australia where the only 17hh plus horses were the odd TB or draft horses.

It is WRONG to describe Flaneur as a throwback in that most of his immediate ancestors where neat and quite modern horses for the time.

Sire: Fax I by Fanatiker (and older style of horse but from a wonderful bloodline descended from the foundation line of Achill 1877 who can be traced back to the Darley Arabian). The dam of Fax I is the Anglo Arab mare Margot (75% TB).

Dam: Lita by Markgraf from the Elegant - Ethelbert line out of Depenau from the Heinze - Ethelbert line.

Very old, original Holsteiner lines.

Unfortunately we hear much ridicule heaped on Flaneur which he doesn't deserve. True - many of his progeny were not "up to scratch" by anyone's definition but quality mare selection wasn't very high on the lists either. The offspring from GOOD tb mares were successful as both sires and dams.

I do have a couple of photo's but they aren't loaded anywhere. I'll have to look.


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phoenix_wb
Member since 18-Oct-05
262 posts
03-Mar-08, 01:38 AM (AEST)
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5. "RE: Old Warmblood Stallions"
In response to message #4
 
   I like to look at the related bloodlines of the 'oldies' and think about what might be possible.. For example, Flaneur's sire Fax 1 was also the grandsire of Nimmerdor. Nimmerdor himself had strong thoroughbred influence on the damside so it wouldnt be too far fetched to look for good horses by Flaneur from GOOD thoroughbred mares -and hey presto they actually do exist.
Three others to throw into the mix that create various comments: Ludendorf, Grannus II and Rocadero. To my knowledge the first two were unclassified when imported.
Starting with Ludendorf -no matter what view people have it is hard to argue with the fact that he produced FEI dressage horses, leading eventers and world cup showjumpers. Interestingly, in a modern context his bloodlines of Luciano and damsire Waidmannsheil (t/b) dominate the foundation mare line of Sandro Hit.
Grannus II -well again there is a variety of opinion. Some are super quiet and some are not. I've seen conformation faults in hindlegs -but I never saw the stallion himself so I leave it to others to comment. There do not seem to be many stallion representatives of the Grannus line in Germany right now.
Rocadero is by Ronald who is regarded as a good heriditary proginator of the Ramiro line. I have to admit that of the 'big three' Holsteiners (Ramiro, Corde and Ladykiller) I have a soft spot for Ramiro -super temper and trainability. Having Ramiro on the damside of a pedigree is no bad thing in my view.
We have to remember that many of these imported stallions did it tough in that they didnt necessarily have top mares to serve.


phoenix

www.freewebs.com/phoenix_wb


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Talaki
Member since 20-Mar-05
549 posts
04-Mar-08, 02:32 PM (AEST)
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6. "RE: Old Warmblood Stallions"
In response to message #5
 
   Thanks all for your contributions, hopefully more of the old guys get remembered. I was originally trying to find some info on Duellschutz and could only find his pedigree, that he sired the Olympic showjumper Snapps and that he seems to be very common in Australian mares. I think it is a pity that they get forgotten and just turn into a name!

www.kksequestrian.com.au


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frogfriday
Member since 14-Jan-06
370 posts
04-Mar-08, 05:32 PM (AEST)
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7. "RE: Old Warmblood Stallions"
In response to message #6
 
   Hi Talaki,

I think I have some info on Duellschutz at home that came with a Valuta/Duellschutz mare that I have.

From memory, there are several old ads (with some details of shows) and maybe an article that mentions him. All are from the era when he was out and about. There is some stuff on Valuta, too, I think.

I just don't know how much, or how good the info is.


I will be home in several weeks - if I remember (possible-to-unlikely ), I will try to dig the info out.


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Talaki
Member since 20-Mar-05
549 posts
04-Mar-08, 05:44 PM (AEST)
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8. "RE: Old Warmblood Stallions"
In response to message #7
 
   Will be much appreciated!

www.kksequestrian.com.au


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