I think worse than doggers buying them, is a horse given away as a companion horse (as my mother's sweet sweet ex-racehorse was) only to find out later on that the person who took him went and made a quick buck with him at the abbatoir.

Had she known this was going to happen we would have put him down ourselves. He promised a decent life as a companion horse .

I was out to buy 2 cows at the sales at Pakenham, Vic (for those who don't know, Pakenham is about 6 hours from the SA boarder). There obiously weren't a lot of horse lovers there.. a WB mare and a TB filly both went to good homes ($600 each). However apart from that I saw every horse there picked up by the doggers.

It gets worse.

They were all loaded onto 2 trucks (cattle trucks), that were about 15 horses over max. I won't go into details. When I questioned them about where they were taking them, given there is a knackery nearby, they replied "These are bound for Adelaide". Apparently, Adelaide doesnt like getting pre-slaughtered horse flesh, they like them alive when they arrive. Just guessing, I reckon the majority of those horses didn't make it.

Anyone who has witnessed my temper to such actions would have had a field day on that occasion - I got myself kicked out of the sale yards with my colourful language. And I didn't get my cows which I really needed to eat down capeweed.

Code 45 - People like that deserve to be shot! Boils my blood....

I accept that the doggers are just doing their job. I'll admit, they could have chosen a slightly more humane career, but the same as I work with horses, and some work in real estate and some work in hospitality etc, they work for knackeries. However, what breaks my heart and causes my anger levels to sky rocket, is the fact that these horses, obviously tired, exhausted and scared, are handled in this way! The fear in their eyes as they are litterally BASHED and petrified into running up ramps into overcrowded trucks...

Even if you put a rope around their necks and walked them on THEY WOULD FOLLOW YOU! 9 out of 10 are too tired to fight anymore. Commonly they have been shipped from home to home looking for someone to love them.. but because of a behavioural fault (human taught might I add) or a veterinary problem, or AGE, no one will love them. Old horses are the saddest of all.. been someones best friend for 16 odd years, sells to a beginner, horse turns 22, kid cant get rid of it, parents need money and cant feed an old horse...

Heartbreaking.

Anyway, I'm going to stop typing now before I upset myself and all of you.

PS I've saved 5 over the years. Recommend it to anyone with a heart.

Kryal_Kaos@horsemagazine.com

The pet food companies say they don't use it and I reckon they'd have to be careful so I believe them - well, er, mostly.

The pet food shops that sell fresh and frozen meat - they are the ones I'm wary of. Now if you don't buy pet food from them, the market for horsemeat could dry up??

Some younger meat goes to Japan for humans. I read that NZ takes some for dog food too.

And of course if you want to look at lions and tigers in zoos, they need to be fed.

It's a horrible vision I have of that sad, lonely mare without her foal.

The problem is, if 16,000 foals are going to be bred each year, they would be culled anyway like the kangaroos as only about .025% of that number get to the races.

Bring in breeding quotas I say. These books of 100+ mares per season to sires like Redoute's Choice at over $200,000 a pop - guys like John Messara, Alan Jones, Gerry Harvey (don't shop at Harvey Norman) are laughing all the way to the bank while their leftovers face a not always quick death at the slaughterhouse, not to mention the horror journey getting there.

Any horse can be for human consumption, as long as its held for a holding period of 28days, and doesnt have any illness or cancer etc.

Kaos, i have emailed u 2 weeks ago i also brought home an aged standardbred mare who was being given away , and had lots of calls but as soon as people found out how old, said no thanks I am currently looking for a home for her as a companion horse, or maybe as a kids led pony? Shes for free, but will have conditions.

Also if anyone knows of any land for lease or council land for lease in cranbourne, please let me know. Thanks!

Recently at an all aged sale a horse that was a multiple metro winner that had a record of 39 or so races for 5 wins and a number of placings earning over $39,000 went for $300. Seemingly not even tried as a broodmare etc very sad.

I remember being at a 'doggers' sale and the horse next to where a friend had her horse looked like it had been a well cared for riding horse at some time but was then left in a paddock (its bridle path was growing out and wrng type & age for a racehorse) - it went for meat along with some very old ponies that sold for $30-50, a few standardbreds, a few TBs, and many other general breeds of horses.

You often see old broodmares that have average breeding and have produced nothing in many years at stud sadly go for meat but seeing a successful racehorse go at these sales (know of a couple last year too) is very sad.

the way many horses are broken in is also a disgrace and another part of racing that should be looked at.
the amount of horses that break necks when learning how to tie up is sickening and other practices used by some breakers are disgusting.

However some old mares ARE purchased by equestrian breeders - old mares and you wonder who bought them for 400, 500, 700 etc and they are never returned again to the stud book. Was talking to someone at a sale and they said how some breeders are looking for a tb mare and will take the gamble to get at least one foal.

Drawn was another to make news. A very honest little racehorse and group 1 winner he went to stud but failed commercially. Went thru an Inglis all aged sale and went for $1000 or a bit less. Ended up as a station stallion somewhere. Family Ties, that Russian horse that was imported years ago, Iga Ninja (the second one that was a very speedy 2yo), and several others turn up in Horse Deals as equestrian sires or as champ TB at the royals.

Ps...More worried about getting Jumps Racing barred, aleast it gives a new lease of life.

Sales and Doggers arent in the public eye!!!!!!

I know of a horse that was bought at the all aged sales and ended up a jumps horse and was killed in a trial leading up to Oakbank but never seen a jumps horse in a tried horse sale - plenty though out there doing showjumping and eventing.

Just letting you know my mare (timber) has been rehomed. Shes going to a caring couple who want a horse to love! To the locals, i will be at the sales friday.

have emailed you. Thanks for supporting a good cause! May another horse be saved to live another day.

Doggers, as sad as it is have a place. But how they go about things has a lot to be desired. Like a lot of industries some regulations or an industry code of conduct needs to be enacted to oversee the way these horses are handled in their last days.

Some horses are better off to be put down, than to live a life of misery and/or pain. Some may have traits which are dangerous or not treatable.

I have known doggers to purchase horses at sales and resell them as riding horses. Not everything gets slaughtered, and if one approaches a dogger at a sale about a horse they will more often than not say if you pay for it, you can have it.

Commercial and hobby breeders, not just racing have a lot to answer for. So much stock which is literally crap is bred and these end up at the doggers. Breed societies and associations need to take a proactive approach to ‘look after their own’, so to say.

To finish on a +ve note. I used to be a strapper in a STB stable which rented out stables to a TB trainer and there used to be a horse I admired. He was chestnut with blaze and 4 white socks (I like chrome!). He was crazy, as a result of his treatment. Four years later, I was long gone from the stable and I was at a local sale in the dogger section. I seen this chestnut horse and bought him. After getting his papers from the AJC and realized it was this TB I admired years ago. He is now 15 years old and is my pet and will be with me forever.

They (the knackeries) will on sell sometimes and there is many threads about one in Sydney that is popular with the equestrian types.

One sadstory revolves aroud Hot Ally who won a STC Winter Cup when it was a listed event back in the 80s. When he won that he was trained by I think Clarrie Conners but eventually the horse was struggling as age and weight caught up and the Connors stable recommended he be retired. And apparently he was given to a girl as a riding horse but for some reason he passed through several owners and eventually someone checked his record and thought 'I'll put ths old horse back in training'. So he ended up going around in racesin country NSW under huge weights and not doing that well. Sometime later a friend of a strapper who looked after him when he was in the Sydney stable recognised the horse at a doggers sale somewhere. The strapper contacted the company on the Monday morning and found out which knackery hadhim. They finally got hold of them mid morning and the owner remembered the horse (had won a few dollars on him) was surprised he'd ended up at the establishment and told the strapper they'd check and if he was still there they could have him. Sadly they found that he'd been one of the worst in condition and therefore was done first thing that morning.

Couple of things - Racing plays a big part in national revenue. Believe it or not, most trainers actually do care about the horses in their stable to an extent. However, these horses are worth a lot of money, and when an owner is informed that their horse is (for example) a wobbler, they have 2 choises. Retire the animal (it wont be a race horse or a riding horse) and have a lifelong feed bill. Remember, the horse is between 1 and 2 by this stage. Or they can put it down and claim say, $60,000 insurance.

Racehorses have it pretty easy. They get the best feed, vets and farriers, best boxes and care. Stablehands love horses and look after them - why else would someone get out of bed at 4am, 6 days a week for a measly $400 or so? All we ask them to do in return is run around a track for 10 minutes a day.

Jumps racing appears cruel.. granted. But you won't get rid of it, no one can because a lot of slow horses are great jumpers. If you're going to complain about that, complain about 2yo racing. Their bone structure is hardly developed.. these are the unsound ones. A lot die at the track though.. just during exercise. Either by going through the rail.. heart attack. A high profile Melbourne Cup runner recently died overseas during a race. A lot more happens behind the scenes that you dont see.

Of course, its horrible that they get dogged.. read my above posts.. but I am a racing fan, and its not racing that needs to be blamed.. What about the poor old welshie at the doggers next to the shiny TB?

But there are a few stables around that would rather just walk em up the dog truck than to bother with anything. Fair enough they get the insurance, but some are very harsh. As soon as a horse isnt paying there way they are out, without a second glance. Some of these are perfectly good animals.

There are a lot of ponies that go through, but i find they are sold more to kids homes. Its the tbs that are rarely sold to homes as everyone thinks they r crazy. Or the young foals. I bnought 2 Aussie pony foals last sale..there was 7 there and i think 4 went to the doggers, as people dont want to spend the times training and feeding etc for young 1's.

I want to know how all the wonderful people who rescue these horses afford to do so. The cost of rehab. and on going maintenace must surely be a quite high if these animals are to be offered quality care as long as they need it.

maybe i can take your horses. Rehabing horses isnt that costly. If you have the land wich has decent grazing and hard feed aswell as hay. I only get my horses trimmed unless theres a reason they need shoes, and riding, well we ride anything and just spend the time to educating them slowly.Teeth only need to be done once a year, and worming we buy in bulk. We have an endless supply of rugs and we also make our own. The only cost thats unexpected is if we need the vet, wich graciously lets us pay it off.

And we have our own float

I guess my point is that it is a whole heap easier to aquire animals than it is to sell them on and some people may have little choice when it comes to getting rid of them.

I'm a little worried that if I list them here it is pushing the advertising barrow too much.

Post an email address and I'll get the relavent info to you that way.

Thanks

About 18 months ago we purchased a very successful ex jumps horse called Kandahar and in 12 months he has gone from grade 3 eventing to one star..... so glad that one didnt go to the doggers!!!

You say your horses are your life - welcome to the club. We all have something in common, our love of horses. Why else would I spend every day from 4am - 6pm with them? Since you know first hand how trainers treat their horses I'm assuming that you work in a prominent racing stable. As such you would know that the trainers don't have a say in what happens to the horse - its the owners who decide. The trainer who approached you about that horse obviously cared about the animal, because the owner obviously gave him instructions to have it dogged and the trainer thought to give it a second chance with you.

I find it strange that a 2yo filly would be sacked... they are generally pre trainers at this age and would not have proved if they are good or not yet. Usually its because there is something wrong with the horse.

Racing is physically demanding on any horse - but my horses get put under a lot more pressure than gallopers. Mine have to work in frame, performing gymnastic exercises for 45 minutes a day each. I bet they'd kill to be race horses.

As well as everyday horses. If you wish to advertise please let me know. Look out for us at the Pak sales June 25th.
We can also buy horses for others, or find horses to match those wanted.
OR if you have a business or service and want to advertise please email me also.

Are you going to the Belcam Auction today? I'm going See if I cant pick myself up a new baby superstar

I WISH i was going to belcam, Centrum looks gorgeous!! >< I just dont have that sort of bank balance

That is devastating about the strangles horse, fair enough it may not have been "savable" as they say, but they could have waited. Pak just puts them out the back to be loaded. As for the standardbred mare..icant believe an owner would do that, surely they couldve pulled the foal, and sold the yearling separatly. Some people should be shot!

Echuca is every fortnight?? when i get my car back, looks like we should make a convoy up there.

At Pakenham they load them onto knackers trucks in full view of everyone. If anyone needs an extra float, feel free to utilise me.

Last week I saw Monty Roberts in Sydney who is here at the invitation of Racing NSW. He is advocating not only banning the stockwhip but banning the whip altogether in racing. He demonstrated his new laneway system of training horses for the barriers. I thought the way he explained his philosophy was
excellent. He was big on keeping the adrenalin levels down in
horses and of course preached non-violence. I looked up his website as a matter of interest and see his flash farm actually stands a stallion for $1,000.00. So he is a commercial breeder
which I believe is rather hypocritical, because if you're in the
breeding business, then you have to accept that many will end up
at the slaughterhouse and then "shock and awe for the horse" looks extremely violent to me after watching the SHARK video of horse
slaughter in the U.S.A. (I refused to wimp outon that one).
A must-read for all on this subject is in Australian Breeding and
racing Magazine, Issue 43 - April 2004 with the amazing Lonhro on the
cover called "How do we Stop the Slaughter"? It is the first time
I have seen an article of this nature in a racing magazine, inspired
by the courageous Barbara Bayer who tracked down the demise of
Ferdinand.

Apart from relatively infrequent mixed thoroughbred sales run by Inglis and Magic Millions, there are other sales in out of the way parts of the country where catalogues are usually not available prior to the sale.

So as a vendor wanting to sell a horse, the opportunities to showcase your horse to potential purchasers are few. Coupled with that is the fact that entry costs for thoroughbred sales are $330, which combined with transport to the sale, sale attendance costs and the rest means that you won't even get your sale costs back if your horse sells for less than $1000.

Of course for most thoroughbred vendors, the main objective is not to make money from selling the horse, but more to stop having to pay for it. With regular thoroughbred sales spaced months apart, the cost of keeping the horse for another month or so also figures heavily in the equation.

We figure that The Virtual Saleyard provides an ideal location for slow horses to be listed around the time they first become candidates for "outplacement". We have thousands of equestrian users of TVS, many of whom are on the lookout for a new horse. With text listings being free and photo listings inexpensive, we feel that TVS could provide a cost effective solution to putting sellers in touch with buyers.

What the concept needs however, is volunteers who will contact trainers and help them to get their horses listed. We intend to approach racing administrators to advise them of the concept. They are acutely aware of the animal rights issues involved and we believe that a low cost solution such as we are suggesting could attract industry support.

We have recently established an agency function within TVS to allow qualified agents to process listings on behalf of clients. While this function is intended to be used by people who want to earn additional income by selling TVS advertising, I'm sure we can adapt it to be used by "outplacement consultants" who might work with trainers and owners to find new homes for their horses.

If anyone wants to explore this concept further, please contact me at bill@cyberhorse.net.au.

another option would be to only breed a third of them or maybe miss a year, its so sad isn't it.

The horses were listed with various information ad the price that the racing stable wanted (highest I think was 1600 so not huge amounts and many were the 600-800 bracket) and who to contact to arrange to see the horse .

The site itself was amonst the equestrian sites not racing ones so was a good way to show the horses were there and the info had things like temperment, what it would be suited for etc. Elsewhere on the site they had photos of horses that had been found new homes through the service. Seemed a good idea as equestrian riders who don't have racing contacts and racing peole who don't have equestrian contacts do find it hard to connect between the two sides of the horse industry.

A few old mares and a youngish Luskin Star mare have gone
to the knackery. They are such caring old sweethearts,
I can't believe people can be so mean, their last float
journey to such a violent end.(who's policing it?)

As for the owners/trainers who put conditions on their stock -
I just wish I could find out who these people are.Just what
are their motives? Are they afraid people will find
out their horses were saved from the knackery by the brands?

The lawyer/author of Animals, Property and the Law, Gary
Francione explored the subject of animals as property.
He draws the analogy between animals as property and
slaves as property. In his interview with Animal Liberation
he states: " The slave was a piece of property, a thing that was owned by the slave owner, and only had that value assigned
to her by her owner. Similarly, because animals are property,
they, too, are merely things that we own, and only have the
same value that we accord to them. As a matter of logic,
we cannot balance their interests against ours, any more
than we can balance our interests against those of our
cars or wrist watches."

Bless you Rusty. I have also taken food up there,
a floatload of hay on Christmas Day before. I don't
live nearby anymore.

http://www.animal-lib.org.au/more-interviews/francione/part2.shtml.

Let us hope firstly that those horses don't have 'conditions' on their heads, and that if they are bought by the same knackery that I drive past, that they have been put in the 'safe zone'. I will pop up next weekend with some grain and hay (though, cheeky buggers, they want the grain and not the hay!) and take some photos -- we will try and generate some interest assuming there are no 'set owner conditions'. The problem is getting them quality new homes . . . these are becoming more scarce with the rising costs of keeping horses, particularly in these current tough conditions.

I was up at the knackery about 2-3 weeks ago and the foreman had a foal in his holding pen. A lady had come up and said she was going to buy it but could he keep it a week for her. He said yes as long as she bought some feed up for it. Well, this lady didn't bother bringing any feed up for the poor thing, so he was feeding it himself. Again, not all prospective homes are worth having. If it was me who had put in an offer on that foal I would feel wholeheartedly ashamed of myself.

If it's the same knackery, then they have been excellent to deal with from my perspective. Remember, they are only dealing with the racing and equestrian surplus and sadly, there is an endless and constantly renewed supply available.

Oh, by the way, all my horses originated from this knackery (no shame in that!).

You take care too -- thanks for letting us all know.

p.s. If you ever want to shoot me an email my address is oneileatnetspacedotnetdotau -- just change the 'at' to @ and the 'dots' to .

The cost of keeping horses with the shocking price of hay
must be adding to the numbers "dumped".

The owners pay all the costs of racing the horse but just
consider who benefits from each horse who is out racing?
breeders, jockeys, trainers, float companies, farriers,
punters, governments, companies, bookmakers etc. etc.

As I stated once before, I think they should ALL contribute
to a fund to rehabilitate/train racehorses who do not fit
into the "highly desirable" category of racehorses coming
off the track.

Just consider the breeders at the prestigious Easter Sale at
Randwick, averaging $200,000 for each yearling this year.
A percentage of that money (tax free) should go to
a properly set up charity fund for the welfare of ex-rachorses
in need.

Can you give me more details of when and where these horses are loaded onto trucks at Coffs Harbour? Thanks for reporting that
"another opinion".

Though the trend lately has only been for old broodmares (and the odd young mare selling for breeding not racing purposes) to go for meat at the all aged sales there are a few geldings that only just sell for over meat price. The next one in Adelaide is April 15 at the Magic Millions sale complex which is at Morphettville. You get to it by going from marion rd onto cross road then turning left toward the racecourse right before the tram crossing. If you follow that road around (park tce?) after the turn at the gate and the roundabout on the right is the Magic millions entrance.